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Well our father is also a graphic designer. It was therefore obvious to me that I wanted to study graphic design although I did have a phase where I was a bit confused and thought of maybe doing journalism or theater directing. But I eventually decided to study graphic design at the Vilnius Art Academy.

For me, it was a little bit different. With Indre, it was clear that she had this passion for design early on. She and my father talked so much about graphic design and as the youngest I felt a bit excluded and though that I didn’t want to be part of this world. Our mother is an illustrator, and she taught me classical drawing, but I didn’t like it because it was my mother tutoring me. (She laughs.) At the time I was a bit lost, but I still had to enter a University. People’s mentality in Lithuania at that time, or at least in my surroundings, was that if you didn’t start university right after high school, you would end up homeless.

I remember this guy in high school who didn’t enter any university and people talked about him, like he is such a nice guy but what is he doing with his life? Even taking a gap year is looked down upon in Lithuania. Therefore I knew I had to choose something but didn’t know what. I had no clue, so my mom said: Okay. Do you want to design a lamp or do you want to draw something? She only gave me these two opportunities: product design or graphic design. Laura laughs. I found both exciting so my parents suggested that I’d go for graphic design, as it’s easier. My father has a library full of books about graphic design so it was clear that it would help me understand the profession better. Finally, I ended up entering the Vilnius Art Academy and studied graphic design, and I turned out to be a pretty good student!

While I was studying graphic design in Vilnius I couldn’t exactly find my theme or direction. I decided to go to Bergen, Norway, for an exchange program, but I didn’t like it that much. Whenever I showed my sketches, the teachers didn’t really comment on the work and just told me to keep going. When I went back to Lithuania, I found this school in Holland that encouraged its students to reflect critically on what they are doing. I experienced that in Lithuania and Norway when students were asked why they drew something specific, the answer would often be because they liked it or thought it was nice. There was something lacking in this communication for me, it just didn’t feel right, but I couldn’t quite figure out why. After I entered the art academy in Holland when I was 26, I finally realized why. Here design students were taught conceptual thinking and were also encouraged to read and write a lot as well. We had several tutorials on how to find our own concept or how to work with different contexts and content. This approach to design was just more fitting for me.

After I finished my bachelor in graphic design in Vilnius I started working for an advertising company for one year. It was a big shock! (Indre laughs). It was the best advertising agency in Vilnius and very well paid. But working for commercial clients drained my brain. What I was doing was just for the purpose of selling and making more money for somebody else. Therefore, I decided to go to Holland to learn typography. Well, actually I didn’t read the course description that thoroughly because it turned out to be type design and not typography. But the Royal Academy of Art in The Hague¹ proved to be one of the few places in Europe where you can learn type design, so I decided to go for it. It was kind of an experiment for me at the time, but now I can adopt the skills I learned to make my designs more unique. Ten years later I went on to do a program for design research at the Jan Van Eyck Academy² in Maastricht in 2013.

Indre came first for a five-month typography project for a performance.

When I was working and studying in Holland, I wanted to go to Berlin to experience the city. I therefore applied for funding at Dutch art institutions. To justify going to Berlin and not another city, I wrote that I would like to work with music-based performances and had chosen Berlin because of its renowned experimental music scene. My project³ was to include typography in an experimental way with performance . I got funding for doing this project for five months and came to Berlin and stayed for these five months. I really liked Berlin, but I couldn’t find any other means of prolonging my stay for another year. At the same time, I came over this beautiful apartment that I persuaded Laura to take over from a friend of mine who was leaving. It was very cheap, 300 euros for a whole apartment at Maybachufer. Can you imagine?

At the time I was graduating from school in Holland, which initially meant that I was supposed to go back to Lithuania. Then Indre told me that she had gotten this incredibly cheap apartment in Berlin. That was a big motivation for me to head to Berlin. Indre said that I just had to move because the flat was so cheap and nobody could find a place that easily. She told me, Laura, you have to move, and so I moved.

Well, I suggested it. I didn’t force her! (She laughs). I told her just come, take your time and see if you like it.

I just wanted to go home to Lithuania and relax. During my time in Holland, I also went to Istanbul for half a year for an internship⁴, and I was tired of the hard times that come with living abroad. I decided to move to Berlin nevertheless and slowly I got used to it, and today I’m still here.

When I moved to Berlin I rented a table in an architecture office in Neukölln. Indre eventually came back to Berlin and also searched for a place to work. Both of us ended up in a gallery that had seven tables. She was doing her stuff and I was working on my stuff. We were often giving feedback to each other and liked to talk while we were working and soon realized that we were disturbing the others. We therefore started to chat on Messenger instead even though we were sitting right in front of each other! It was so stupid. We decided instead to rent a place together and found a small but nice room. We were still working separately on our own projects but in the same physical space. Indre was always giving me good inputs and comments on my work that I always took to me and implemented in my work. I wrote my name on the work although the very idea was actually hers. It felt weird writing my name on something that she had given me the idea for, so I thought, lets become a team! But Indre wasn’t that keen on the idea of collaborating at the time because she wanted to be autonomous. It took me about two years to convince her! (She laughs).

I think the studio played an important role. We eventually had to move from the room we rented because the owners were selling the building. We then found our current space here in Mitte. It’s a much bigger space than the little studio we had before and was much more open and inviting for collaboration with people in a way. Because of the open space, we have the possibility now to do other activities such as exhibitions, events, and talks. The space allows us to develop our vision and it just made sense to work together.

Not yet. No conflicts but discussions.

Yes, we didn’t have any conflicts yet, but let’s see in the future. But since we are family I am not afraid of criticizing Laura, and I think also Laura is not afraid of criticizing me. We don’t get offended by one another, and there is also no competition between us.

Yes and we also trust each other. For example, I know Indre will end up doing something good, but that’s because I know her process. At a first look her sketches do not look very promising, but in the end, it always turns out to be great. Because I am familiar with her weird process, I don’t judge her work immediately but just trust her and that the result will turn out good.

Well this is more the case for my creative processes. But I haven’t been doing that so much lately because I feel I’ve been vomiting creativity for the last 16 years, like creative vomit you know? Like, pushing myself and putting in an effort. Often in the sketching process, it looks weird even for me, but I think for people who see it from the outside it’s like Oh! What is going on!? That’s also the reason for why I can’t work with just anybody because of this process. Other people, besides from Laura, would stop me in my process because they think my sketches are shit. Also, I’m not always that self-confident about what I do and have self-doubt and think, Shit! Yes its true, they are right.

Yes. I’m not as experimental as Indre I think. I’m more traditional, but my work still consists of elements that you probably would consider as something that is slightly different or off.

I started this project⁵ here in Berlin just as I had moved from Holland. I didn’t have that much work at the time and I was also in a new stage of my life. I started asking myself if I should just move back to Lithuania or continue to stay in Berlin. I therefore tried to think of something that I could create and organize by myself as a graphic designer. I had this gallery space that I was sharing with some other people and came up with the idea of using it for a design workshop series. I like typography, and I enjoy to teach, so I figured why not start a workshop where I teach typography? The curator of the space also wanted to organize events, so we ended up collaborating and I also did the visual identity for the workshop series. We did three workshops in the gallery Kleiner Salon where we invited professionals from distinctive fields to give the workshops. Afterwards, I applied for funding from the Ministry of Culture in Lithuania to organize the same event there, because I felt that it was something that was missing there. I brought the best tutors from Berlin to Lithuania, and it was very successful. All the classes were full, and it proved that it was something that people wanted.

Yes, but it was a different festival and a long time ago, in 2007. It was a conference I organized where I invited ten designers from Holland to Vilnius.

Back then, that was a completely new thing in Vilnius.

The idea came to me while I was studying and working in Holland. I realized that I had all these amazing and talented people around me. Why not invite them to Lithuania so that designers also there could see their work and learn from them? I knew the director of an independent design center in Lithuania whom I contacted, and he liked the idea. And the Dutch weren’t hard to persuade; they were looking forward to it because Lithuania was at the time still very exotic and everything was cheap. The audience was also really enthusiastic, and it ended up being a success.

It didn’t use to be, but suddenly within the last year it has become huge. It is kind of a trend now for Lithuanians to move here. I guess it’s probably related to Ryan Air introducing really cheap flights between Vilnius and Berlin a few years ago.

It’s not a huge trend but rather just our world and the bubble we live in here in Berlin. A lot of active people like artists, musicians or owners of new trendy cafes - people with initiative; these type of people started moving to Berlin and a lot of people within our field as well.

Absolutely! It’s good for Berlin though, but not for Lithuania. But actually, some people who have lived in Berlin for a long time started moving back to the countryside of Lithuania. They wanted to live here in Berlin but realized that it was too hard for them to concentrate on their work here. Now they live in the forest on the outskirts of Vilnius.

Surprisingly, it's getting similar to here! But before the Euro, it was definitely cheaper. Now it’s changing, but the average salary stays the same, so it doesn’t add up which is unfair.

Yes, and also these people moving to Berlin reached a certain level where they cannot go further in Lithuania. They are in search of another challenge, and that is why they move.

This is the real luxury of what our country can offer: the pure nature! Our family has this 100-year-old house in the middle of nature with nobody else around within several hundreds of meters, just a few houses, and a church. It’s a small village with a forest where you can pick mushrooms. For me, that’s a real luxury. But I wouldn’t move there I think.

No, not with my job I couldn’t move anywhere even if I wanted to.

That’s the problem. I couldn’t either because of practical reasons like my husband. What would he do? Plus it’s so cold.

SO cold! (She starts laughing).

My husband is Italian, so he would definitely go crazy.

Yes, more or less 80 percent are Lithuanian clients. But we are slowly starting to get new local clients.

Well I started to get in touch with potential clients through friends who recommended me to other friends. Like for example, I talk with someone at a party and then suddenly they say that their friends need a graphic designer. That’s how I got my clients here in Berlin and its how it works here. I never got a client from my website.

That is absolutely the case for Indre! She is very socially active here in Berlin. I was quite active in Lithuania and got a bunch of clients from it, but now I’m calmer, and Indre is more out and about meeting people.

Yeah, but I actually also met a client through my German course.

Absolutely, yes! I did it as well and went to BSI near Hermannplatz. It’s a great place to meet people. I met my husband there.

It’s difficult. I think actually that I was feeling more creative in Holland because I was in lack of social contact and was very bored. Also, the landscape and the city is very plain. Everything felt so framed or silent, and nothing really surprises you. It’s so dry and arranged with lines that indicate where you are allowed to stand and where not to cross. I think that because of this my creative urge became more challenged and fueled a burning desire to do something a bit crazy.

You only have your own mind, and it’s up to yourself to initiate projects.

For example, I ended up doing this project in Paris because I was so bored that I wanted to challenge myself creatively. I wanted to go to Paris but to justify the tickets, I figured out I’d do a project during my stay. This way the trip would be for work. I made this poster that I printed in a big size, and during three days I went to all these touristy places and asked people to take photos of me with the poster in front of the attractions. You know, inventing projects like that I wouldn’t do here in Berlin I think. Here I would invite over a friend and just relax.

Yes, I felt the same over there. The need to initiate your own colorful things. The only solution was to create a lot of things for yourself.

In Berlin, I just feel much more relaxed. But now I’m getting my drive and motivation back. Whereas for the two first years that I lived here I thought it was just so nice not to work that much and just lie on a bench and look at a tree for example. You know? It was so lovely and creativity was the last thing I was thinking about.

Yes. I’m more pragmatic now than before. What we do and what we are trying to do is a bit more constructive, you know? It’s entirely different now. We have become more mature. We never work during the weekends for example.

Yes, like you don’t work in the evenings unless its some application you need to send in, but never for client work. But adding to this about Berlin: my first year here I didn’t work that much, but I was participating in things everywhere and saw so many exhibitions that I still felt that I was working a lot physically. Then after one year, I realized I didn’t do much professionally. At the time I was living in Neukölln, and there you always see a lot of young people walking around with a beer in their hands, whereas I was walking around trying to come up with some creative idea. It’s just a different time for me now. I need to concentrate on my work. I don’t need to meet new people all the time, but I needed that back then because I was new here. I think if you want to focus on your work it’s really dangerous here.

Yes, but I think here you also feel bad when you are working and not drinking beer outside. You feel that you are missing out on something. Whereas in the Netherlands when you lie on the sofa for half an hour you also feel bad because you should be working, AND you are also missing out. And while your laying on the coach everybody else is in the meantime improving, doing projects and becoming famous.

Yes, I felt the same over there. The need to initiate your own colorful things. The only solution was to create a lot of things for yourself.

Yes, like asking: How are you? and the answer was always busy busy busy.

A friend of Indre was visiting and at a party, he met a girl, and the first question he gets is: So what do you do? And I was like, oh! Nobody here in Berlin would ask that question immediately. Then I remembered that in Holland it is really common and it’s normal to talk about who you are and what you do and to see your personality through your work. Which is also nice, but in Holland, it’s just so radical and in Berlin not at all.

Radical in a different way yes, but its true. For people who don’t have a lot of discipline I think it can be hard to push yourself because you can quickly get satisfied here, so why do more?

It’s more distracting actually for me than inspiring. I’d rather work a lot. But workwise of course its good that you have the opportunity to go to all these great exhibitions, though I think it’s enough to just go to one or two per month. If I see too much I feel distracted. I think its better using that time producing and working on your own stuff than seeing what others did, you know?

Yes I agree. For me Berlin is inspiring in general but for work, it’s like Laura says, distractive.

I did this thesis for my bachelor studies. Lithuania was stuck in my mind because I missed it all the time. As I told you our father is also a graphic designer and he is always so skeptical about Lithuania, and what is happening there, which I can imagine is the case when you live there. One day I told him that I wanted to do this thesis about graphic design in Lithuania because I never heard that much about it. And my father said to me: There is nothing. And I replied that I didn’t believe him. I then started to analyze and do some research and decided to look at poster design to narrow it down. I looked at posters from 100 years ago and then compared to what was happening with poster design in other countries 100 years ago. Even though it was just for a period of 100 years, you see how the country was developing through these years. For example, during the inter-war period, Lithuania was actually at the same level as France and Denmark. It was exactly the same. Then during the occupation , you see the influence of the Soviet Union and the difference when the country regained its independence again. The idea was basically to look into this field where no one had done any research before. I’m actually trying to get it published now so that we can give it to students and libraries so that everyone can read it.

Well, I think its because it’s related to the politics and history of the country. There is no consistency and, it’s all so random.

And the traditions were always broken.

Yes I think there were so many periods where they were building great things and then boom, nothing! Artists were forced to draw what they were told to draw if not they couldn’t do any artistic practice at all. You feel so sad for the nation because it’s the same pattern in all the fields. Building something up which then get shut down. You can only imagine what something like that does with people’s mentality. But now it’s an interesting time again in Lithuania.

Oh yes!

Well. The economy is booming, but the pension is still 200 euros. But in general, for young people, I think its good.

It’s hard for me to say because I haven’t lived there for eight years.

Now it’s a bit like it was 10 or 15 years ago. It’s the advertising agencies that are the ruling class of anything creative.

Yes.

For graphic designers, the only way to get work is through an advertising- agency. It is first now that they’ve started to work for themselves.

Or like doing the layout for glossy magazines for women. You know those random magazines, like People.

Yes, or like for supermarkets. Nobody really saw it as an alternative working on their own and actually create their own content. However, I now feel that the advertising agencies no longer are the primary movement.

Different companies also started to understand that it is better to hire independent people than to use the big advertising companies. For instance, the Vilnius Film Festival that is organized every year now has this concept that they every year hire a new aspiring artist to create a visual for the festival. They support young talent, and that’s really great.

Yes there are, but many of them focus on brand identity, packaging design, etc. So, still, there are not that many studios that work on editorial design or self-publishing.

I think it’s really vague and spread. It’s mixed; there is not only one. There is this traditional German influence, but the rest is what all the other people bring.

In Holland, you have this distinct Dutch style. You don’t find that here. It’s really nice, and I actually miss that. There is also a lot of nice stuff in Berlin but it’s just more rare to come across.